Thread: RIP Elliot Carter

Posts: 35
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Post by Euell Neverno November 7, 2012 (11 of 35)
Polly Nomial said:


Also, didn't Beethoven (and too many others to mention) say that contemporary audiences didn't understand their music & that they hoped people would "get it" in future generations?

I don't recall the quote, but Beethoven was so highly regarded in his lifetime that his funeral in Vienna was akin to a hero's with 10,00-30,000 onlookers lining the streets for the funeral procession. Theaters were closed and many notable composers and musicians participated in the procession as pallbearers and torch bearers. Though his music was revolutionary for the time, the popularity of his music, or much of it, was not in doubt. And, that is largely because he was adept at producing compositions that utilized the three basic musical tools of melody, harmony and rhythm, the elements that many of our modern composers seem to feel can be ignored. Beethoven didn't receive grants to produce compositions, as is often the case today, nor was he supported by a patron. His income was largely dependent upon upon paid attendance of the public. His creativity was recognized and rewarded precisely because, in general, he composed with his audience in mind, something many modern composers seem to eschew.

Post by Lochiel November 7, 2012 (12 of 35)
Bayside Bomber said:

But I wonder if things could have been different. If Mozart or Beethoven (or Haydn or Strauss if we insist on naming popular composers) had to compete against Presley, Jagger or Spears, would they have been as popular?

People like Liszt, Paganini, and others were the Spears, Jagger and Presley of their time. I would liken Beethoven, Haydn and Mozart to someone like Clapton or Jimmy Page; a truly innovative composer of music (who also played it) and who was an influence for subsequent musicians/composers.

Post by Lochiel November 7, 2012 (13 of 35)
Euell Neverno said:

I don't recall the quote, but Beethoven was so highly regarded in his lifetime that his funeral in Vienna was akin to a hero's with 10,00-30,000 onlookers lining the streets for the funeral procession....

And, that is largely because he was adept at producing compositions that utilized the three basic musical tools of melody, harmony and rhythm, the elements that many of our modern composers seem to feel can be ignored.

So true....and the emergence of so-called "modern" classical music is really what pushed and pushes most of today's creative musical minds into other musical genres such as the pop, rock, and jazz worlds or into composition for film and movies.

John Williams is a great example of someone who is a truly gifted composer of tuneful, enjoyable music. Why isn't he writing symphonies?

Post by Polarius T November 7, 2012 (14 of 35)
Sometimes I honestly don't know what to say after reading what people write on this forum.

I'm going to start a new thread on nonsense in a day or two so we can at least stay respectful of certain thread topics and people can unburden and express themselves freely in more appropriate contexts.

RIP indeed Elliott Carter, one of the uncreative minds of our time, with just 55 or so published works to his name after turning 90. Now can we go back to John Williams, his melody, harmony, and rhythm that one can parse even when able to count to just two. So tuneful, so true, and made with the masses in mind. See you soon at the movie theater near you in between the advertisement ditties.

Literacy and education really are going downhill.

Post by Fugue November 7, 2012 (15 of 35)
Polarius T said:

Sometimes I honestly don't know what to say after reading what people write on this forum.

I'm going to start a new thread on nonsense in a day or two so we can at least stay respectful of certain thread topics and people can unburden and express themselves freely in more appropriate contexts.

RIP indeed Elliott Carter, one of the uncreative minds of our time, with just 55 or so published works to his name after turning 90. Now can we go back to John Williams, his melody, harmony, and rhythm that one can parse even when able to count to just two. So tuneful, so true, and made with the masses in mind. See you soon at the movie theater near you in between the advertisement ditties.

Literacy and education really are going downhill.

+1

Post by Euell Neverno November 7, 2012 (16 of 35)
Polarius T said:

Sometimes I honestly don't know what to say after reading what people write on this forum.


RIP indeed Elliott Carter, one of the uncreative minds of our time, with just 55 or so published works to his name after turning 90. Now can we go back to John Williams, his melody, harmony, and rhythm that one can parse even when able to count to just two. So tuneful, so true, and made with the masses in mind. See you soon at the movie theater near you in between the advertisement ditties.

Literacy and education really are going downhill.

Those churlish masses - Elliot Carter threw his pearls before swine, the blocks, the stones, the worse than senseless things. How could they be trusted to tell good music from bad. After all, that takes intellect and the masses therein are ill equipped. Or, perhaps Carter's mental masturbation was not to their taste, which we all concede is not highbrow.

Post by Fugue November 7, 2012 (17 of 35)
Euell Neverno said:
Or, perhaps Carter's mental masturbation was not to their taste, which we all concede is not highbrow.

OK, that's simply uncalled for. This thread is supposed to honor a highly acclaimed composer. If you don't like his music, then stay the hell out of this thread.

Zeus, where are you?

Post by Matchstickstatue November 7, 2012 (18 of 35)
In the post-election spirit of bi-partisanship, I'd submit the following as proof of the possible continuity between the popular and avant-garde:

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/radical-connections-elliott-carter-and-phil-lesh/

It's an informal conversation between Carter and Grateful Dead bassist Phil Lesh in which they discuss Carter's influence on the Dead, as well their mutual love of Ives, Coltrane, bop and other musical melanges (although Lesh takes some shots at Boulez).

If nothing else, it really makes you wish we could get the Double Concerto and Live/Dead on SACD!

Post by rammiepie November 7, 2012 (19 of 35)
Euell Neverno said:

mental masturbation

Well, at least we all know what Euell does when he's not listening to Karlheinz Stockhausen, John Adams or Elliott Carter!

Post by Euell Neverno November 7, 2012 (20 of 35)
rammiepie

Karlheinz Stockhausen, John Adams or Elliott Carter!

Of those, Adams writes some nice stuff.

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