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Discussion: Steely Dan: Aja

Posts: 152
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Post by krisjan September 5, 2010 (111 of 152)
Ear candy. All those who know what this release should sound like please stand up. No one? I thought so. Let the endless debate continue...

Post by sordidman September 7, 2010 (112 of 152)
Hello,

Cool

Finally someone who has something other than a Sony.

Do you have the Universal SACD of Gaucho? Please compare Gaucho with AJA. As stated, - the SHM SACD of Aja stands out as horrible compared to Gaucho. Yes, we need to take into account that what left the mixing table when Gaucho was originally recorded to analog sounds better, - but the dramatic difference is too huge to ignore between the two SACD discs.

Why would you ever compare the redbook 1987 Aja (You do mean the 1987 version correct? As there was no CD in 1977), with the SHM-SACD? That old redbook recording is notoriously horrible.

The two discs that would be best to compare would be the SHM redbook and the SHM SACD....

I'd be very curious to know your thoughts.

I'd be happy to mail you SHM redbook copy just to get your opinion.

Cheers,

Post by sordidman September 7, 2010 (113 of 152)
Uh...

Sorry, - but, - you statement is pretty rude.

As stated, - I have "issues" with few other discs.

As I said, - the Gaucho SACD sounds wonderful.
The Hugh Masekela SACD sounds wonderful
The Dead Can Dance sound wonderful

The SHM SACD of Aja and Velvet Underground sound crappy.
The Pixies SACDs sound closed in too, - but to a lesser degree.

The Aja SHM-CD sounds "better," than the SACD, - but not nearly as good as the Gaucho.

In my system one does hear that Aja SACD sounds smoother, and "hi-rez" (individual instruments DO sound more true).

But smoother and hi-rez doesn't always make for an overall- "better." As a matter of fact, "smoother" in this case messes with the pacing. And, as others have pointed out, - the soundstage is a bit smaller.

How can it be the "system" when other SACDs and redbook CDs sound wonderful?

Post by Espen R September 7, 2010 (114 of 152)
sordidman, I don't know why it's so important to you again and again to point out how bad the SHM-SACD of Aja is.

Think of this: On Steve Hoffman forum you have a guy named "LeeS". LeeS is an music lover with countless of Lp's/CD's and SACD's. Beside of this; he has recorded several albums, also in high-rez, as an engineer!
LeeS has compared the SHM-SACD of Aja to the two best Lp pressing ever released, and stated that the SHM-SACD is close in sound to the best of these two Lp's.

What Gaucho sounds, that's out of the question in this context.

Post by sordidman September 7, 2010 (115 of 152)
Sorry,

You're missing the point. I'm just saying that in this case, - they messed up. This is sometimes possible, - and I'm sorry that I've wasted my $150.

But more importantly, - I think that it's incumbent on me to render my opinion if someone asks what are the opinions on the sound quality of this expensive, fetish item.

I've rendered that opinion, and been told that my system sucks. I've argued to the contrary citing examples of why.

It is not always true that the SACD incarnation of a product yields better results. (This was quite evident with the "Jazz at the Pawnshop" debacle.

What happens on the Steve Hoffman forum has little interest to me, - and i do not consider Steve Hoffman, - and other "clean-up" re-masterer's as offering a whole lot of value; especially considering that their work is commissioned by labels that often work against the interests of the artists.

Finally, no, what Gaucho, (and other SACDs) sounds like is entirely within the context of the point that something must be wrong with my system if redbook sounds better than SACD. And, - that is NOT what I'm saying, - I'm trying to make the point that within the context, (and exclusive), to ONLY SACDs, - Aja is much worse sounding than just about all of my other SACDs.

Post by mcintosh September 7, 2010 (116 of 152)
sordidman said:

Hello,

Cool

Finally someone who has something other than a Sony.

Do you have the Universal SACD of Gaucho? Please compare Gaucho with AJA. As stated, - the SHM SACD of Aja stands out as horrible compared to Gaucho. Yes, we need to take into account that what left the mixing table when Gaucho was originally recorded to analog sounds better, - but the dramatic difference is too huge to ignore between the two SACD discs.

Why would you ever compare the redbook 1987 Aja (You do mean the 1987 version correct? As there was no CD in 1977), with the SHM-SACD? That old redbook recording is notoriously horrible.

The two discs that would be best to compare would be the SHM redbook and the SHM SACD....

I'd be very curious to know your thoughts.

I'd be happy to mail you SHM redbook copy just to get your opinion.

Cheers,

I don't have Gaucho in any format; only one song I like, Hey Nineteen. I'm contemplating a SHM-SACD purchase of Gaucho shortly.

My redbook copy of AJA has the CD creation date of 1984 printed on the artwork; it's old. The 1977 date was the year of the original recording creation.

As you may or may not be aware of, the Meitner, EMM Labs, SA/CD-SE player has the capability to upsample redbook to DSD levels. This creates a very good quality level of playback; obviously not as good as any SACD. Because of my players upsampling capability I really don't think it would make a difference to audition a SHM redbook example, I could be wrong.

I also purchased The Who, "Who's Next", Dire Straits, 10CC, Derek and the Dominoes, Clapton, Layla, and The Stones "Let it Bleed" in SHM-SACD; they all sound very good.

Post by mcintosh September 7, 2010 (117 of 152)
sordidman said:

Uh...

Sorry, - but, - you statement is pretty rude.

As stated, - I have "issues" with few other discs.

As I said, - the Gaucho SACD sounds wonderful.
The Hugh Masekela SACD sounds wonderful
The Dead Can Dance sound wonderful

The SHM SACD of Aja and Velvet Underground sound crappy.
The Pixies SACDs sound closed in too, - but to a lesser degree.

The Aja SHM-CD sounds "better," than the SACD, - but not nearly as good as the Gaucho.

In my system one does hear that Aja SACD sounds smoother, and "hi-rez" (individual instruments DO sound more true).

But smoother and hi-rez doesn't always make for an overall- "better." As a matter of fact, "smoother" in this case messes with the pacing. And, as others have pointed out, - the soundstage is a bit smaller.

How can it be the "system" when other SACDs and redbook CDs sound wonderful?

Yes, rude is an accurate way of putting it; but it wasn't meant to be that way. Most of the posts here seem to bash each other instead of offering constructive info.

There is a possibility that the batch run of AJA SHM-SACDs containing yours could be defective. As any manufacturing operation isn't 100% perfect; your's could very well be incorrect.

I would visit a friend with a known reference system or a stereo outlet near your home for an audition of your AJA SHM-SACD. You'll have to listen to it yourself for an accurate comparison. Having someone else do it for you won't work; we all have different sensory perceptions and personal sound references. My opinion of the sound quality might very well vary but in what way or manner compared to what you are hearing may not be the same. That's why the Stereophile Magazine reviewer states "don't take our opinion on any given component review, go to a stereo outlet and listen for yourself; you may or may not agree with us".

Post by wferrari September 8, 2010 (118 of 152)
It's very unlikely that there is a defective batch of SHM-SACD. On a digital media, either you hear sound or you don't. It's not like a badly pressed vinyl or demagnetized cassette. If you feel the album has bad sound, the cause may be traced back to the remastering, to the playback equipment, or to personal tastes.

Post by sordidman September 8, 2010 (119 of 152)
Hello,

I have a pal in the East Bay who also owns the Meitner and I've heard it a bunch. He also has a SCD-1 and I can tell you that the difference between each player is dramatic.

I have an APL which has garnered rave reviews: and i think that it sounds fab: but that is not the point really.

I am actually happy that many people are enjoying the SHM-SACD of Aja: it will help me to get rid of it.

Thanks for your explanation regarding what Aja redbook that you have.
My player upsamples too, and in most all cases, SACD kills the upsampled redbook.

In the case of SHM-Aja, - it does not. All 5 people who compared with me listening to my system all agree that the SACD is closed-in, overly smooth, has the "wrong" pacing: compared to the more "live" and "piercing" quality of the SHM redbook. That does not mean that "some" things aren't better with the SACD, - (instruments sound "truer" and more "hi-rez)."

There was also a Mobile Fidelity re-master/re-do of Aja (redbook) as well. People have asserted that this recording was much better than the 1984 release too.

What is difficult to understand is not really my investment in "taking down" the SACD, - but why people have to say how great it is when they don't compare it to the other versions, or compare it on a player that is notorious for its inability to play redbook.

Listening to redbook on Sony SCD-1 is a painful experience, - especially compared to the APL and/or Meitner.

Post by rammiepie September 8, 2010 (120 of 152)
IMO, the SHM~SACD of AJA which I finally received today, sounds incredible!

As I posted earlier, reading all the negatives about Universal/Japan's SHM~SACDs on this forum made me want to cancel my order.

I am So happy I did NOT!

And the packaging which accompanies the SHM~SACDs is very classy.

Now if we only get some multi~channel releases of classic rock albums from Japan..............in the SHM~SACD format................

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