Thread: Esoteric to release Solti's Ring on Dec. 21st, 2009

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Post by MaxP December 21, 2009 (121 of 183)
I'm thrilled that Esoteric is doing this. So far, their releases seem to be stereo only; it would be great if they (or someone) would be able to access and reissue the quadrophonic tapes of the Solti "Tannhäuser." Christopher Raeburn said on several occasions that these tapes (never issued as such on LP as Decca, rightly, felt there was no effective way to create a compatible stereo/quad disc) represented some of the best recorded sound he ever experienced.

Then there's the substantial catalog of EMI "quad" material like the Karajan "Tristan" and Muti Verdi recordings that could probably be revelatory reissued on mch SACD. Or maybe not - the DTS CD issues of the Muti "Aida" and Karajan/BPO Tchaikovsky symphonies were drowning in hall reverb.

Post by Joseph Ponessa December 22, 2009 (122 of 183)
Last night I compared the LP and (second) CD manifestations of Solti's DAS RHEINGOLD. The CD was harsh, dissonant, painful but had a good volume level and excellent left speaker/right speaker balance. The LP was smooth, in pitch and beautiful, but seemed set at a lower volume level, so that I had to boost the overall volume, which magnified the surface noise of the vinyl. The two speakers did not seem to talk back to one another as much on the LP as on the CD, either.
I have and love the SHM-CD pressing of Karajan's RING and that has been my favorite version so far, and I still think that is the best orchestral playing. The LP last night told me, however, that Solti did not push his singers with the orchestra, but let the singers lead, resulting in incredibly beautiful vocal performances by all, including those in the minor roles. It is universally accepted that today's singers cannot match those of an earlier age, but with the jumping and hopping and rolling about that they are expected to do on stage, how could they ever work their diaphragms to project the sound intended by Wagner? It has been so long since we have heard some of these lines sung as written that Solti's sounds like a different universe of sound than that to which we have become unfortunately accustomed.
The upshot of this is that I called Elusive Disc and placed my order for the SACD this morning. The cost is about 1/3 what I paid all told to go attend the Ring in Seattle last August along with nine thousand other people from 49 states and 23 countries. Nonetheless, Elusive told me they only received three orders this week for the SACD Ring. You are missing out, people! Don't expect me to resell mine on eBay. We have been waiting too long to hear one of the world's greatest recordings to full potential, and I have forty years of listening to catch up on.

Post by flyingdutchman December 22, 2009 (123 of 183)
Joseph,

The cost difference is about $170 between Japan and the US. You should think about taking a flight to Japan, do a big shopping trip that includes many of the other Japanese discs out there that you may want. Believe me, Japan is the CD and SACD capital. They have things you would only dream of.

Post by tream December 22, 2009 (124 of 183)
flyingdutchman said:

Joseph,

The cost difference is about $170 between Japan and the US. You should think about taking a flight to Japan, do a big shopping trip that includes many of the other Japanese discs out there that you may want. Believe me, Japan is the CD and SACD capital. They have things you would only dream of.

Are you kidding? I don't know where Joseph lives (Seattle area, maybe?), but the cheapest airfare from SFO to NRT is about $1650. Add to that the cost of the trip from NRT to downtown, the cost of a couple of nights in a hotel, plus food, you are up to at least $3K. So, let's see, you would have to buy 17.6 Ring cycles to break even....even if the wear and tear on your body and your time is considered to be free. I used to fly SFO to NRT quarterly. Nothing like arriving at NRT at about 3:30 in the afternoon and checking into your hotel at 7 pm due to baggage, customs, and the lovely trip from NRT to downtown Tokyo. This is after a ten or 11 hour flight and and a bunch of time zone changes. Great idea.

OTOH, I really love Japanese food, which is way different and well more complex than just sushi. Judging Japanese food by sushi is a little like judging Mexican food by burritos and tacos- there is way more than that. I'd go for the food! But not to shop for SACD's.......

Post by tream December 22, 2009 (125 of 183)
flyingdutchman said:

Joseph,

The cost difference is about $170 between Japan and the US. You should think about taking a flight to Japan, do a big shopping trip that includes many of the other Japanese discs out there that you may want. Believe me, Japan is the CD and SACD capital. They have things you would only dream of.

Are you kidding? I don't know where Joseph lives (Seattle area, maybe?), but the cheapest airfare from SFO to NRT is about $1650. Add to that the cost of the trip from NRT to downtown, the cost of a couple of nights in a hotel, plus food, you are up to at least $3K. So, let's see, you would have to buy 17.6 Ring cycles to break even....even if the wear and tear on your body and your time is considered to be free. I used to fly SFO to NRT quarterly. Nothing like arriving at NRT at about 3:30 in the afternoon and checking into your hotel at 7 pm due to baggage, customs, and the lovely trip from NRT to downtown Tokyo. This is after a ten or 11 hour flight and and a bunch of time zone changes. Great idea.

OTOH, I really love Japanese food, which is way different and well more complex than just sushi. Judging Japanese food by sushi is a little like judging Mexican food by burritos and tacos- there is way more than that. I'd go for the food! But not to shop for SACD's.......

Post by flyingdutchman December 23, 2009 (126 of 183)
You obviously haven't traveled using cheaper modes of travel (a rail pass for a week is $325--which you can use to get to downtown via Narita Express) or accommodations (stayed for a week for $100 a night this Fall and there are other places cheaper (hosteling is great there at about $45 a night). Airfare is not $1650 for times in the mid-winter (February or early March, even in April when it is warmer and the cherry blossoms are out). The cost would be closer to $900-1000 from Seattle (which I think Joseph may be from) if you use sidestep, expedia, or another site to get your ticket. And I agree, a trip to Japan should be planned to include other things, not just to buy cds or sacds. There are other things to do there than just shop for music. Anyway, this box isn't going to go out of print there for a little while no matter how few (1000) are made. The Japanese economy is in recession, too.

Edit to add:

Non-stop from Seattle during the 2nd week of January is $948 on United, taxes included. It's $848 non-stop in April, the time I would go. It's $703 from SF in April. So not $1650.

The set will still be there to buy in April and probably for a good 2-3 years anyway.

Post by tream December 23, 2009 (127 of 183)
So Joseph will need to buy only 10 or so Ring cycles to break even...if he stays relatively cheaply for about a week. :-)

I am really glad that I can acquire this set in the US...but I would like to go back to Japan one day. Besides my love of Japanese food, I would like to explore a bit more - the period of time when I traveled there was one of great business activity for me, and I was on virtually 24/7 - no time to actually see anything outside of offices and restaurants - except a tour of the Peace Museum in Hiroshima, with a Japanese colleague. That was a sobering experience. The Peace Museum is, of course, the Museum located at ground zero for the first atomic bomb. Makes an opera like Dr. Atomic more real.

Hiroshima is also known for oysters and sake, so I recommend a trip down if you are visiting Japan. Have you ever had oysters served 10 different ways, all delicious, beautiful and different? You can do this in Hiroshima.

Off topic, I know.

Tom

Post by feinstei December 23, 2009 (128 of 183)
Joseph Ponessa said:

Last night I compared the LP and (second) CD manifestations of Solti's DAS RHEINGOLD.

I reply:

The second CD incarnation is lousy compared to the first one done in the late 1980's since in the "remastered" second incarnation, they noise-reduced the tapes and added dynamic range compression to increase the overall volume of the thing to make it sound more "alive". I had the first CD incarnation and bought Rheingold from the "remaster" and quickly threw it into the garbage. The original issue is "early digital", but at least it accurately conveys what the tapes had on them.

Post by flyingdutchman December 23, 2009 (129 of 183)
tream said:

I am really glad that I can acquire this set in the US...but I would like to go back to Japan one day. Besides my love of Japanese food, I would like to explore a bit more - the period of time when I traveled there was one of great business activity for me, and I was on virtually 24/7 - no time to actually see anything outside of offices and restaurants - except a tour of the Peace Museum in Hiroshima, with a Japanese colleague. That was a sobering experience. The Peace Museum is, of course, the Museum located at ground zero for the first atomic bomb. Makes an opera like Dr. Atomic more real.

Hiroshima is also known for oysters and sake, so I recommend a trip down if you are visiting Japan. Have you ever had oysters served 10 different ways, all delicious, beautiful and different? You can do this in Hiroshima.

Off topic, I know.

Tom

I lived in Hiroshima for a year (my first year in Japan) and never had oysters, but love Hiroshima Okonomiyaki. My wife tries to make Okonomiyaki, but that is the only dish she makes I cannot eat. I visited the museum more times than I can remember and actually was the tour guide for my Japanese wife when she came to visit me in Hiroshima.

10 times more? $8000? Hardly. But then I don't fly first or business class like you probably do, or stay at a 5 star hotel or pay the rail fees as you probably did. As for the trip, I would make a vacation out of it. If you have the money, you can do it (including staying at some hostels, flying for $800 and getting a rail pass for $325) at about $1700. Sure you're going to be spending more than you would if you had the Solti set sent to you, but here's a great chance to do some travel to a country that is generally safe, is rich in culture, and has more cd and sacd places than you could imagine.

Post by feinstei December 24, 2009 (130 of 183)
URGENT!!!

For those "on the fence" regarding the purchase of the Solti Ring. Elusive Disc has just "sweetened the pie" by offering a 10% discount coupon (even if an item says "Not eligible for further discounts"). Type SAVE10 on the "Shopping Cart" page to redeem. This brings the price of the set down to $719 plus about 7 bucks for shipping.

I just put in my order. Hopefully it'll beat out my copies of the early 70's Decca deluxe LP box (with the metal engraving on the case) and the original CD issue from the late 80's.

Although I love the Solti Ring (and it's the one I've been listening to since I was 12), the most passionate and beautifully performed Ring Cycle is Keilberth's Decca Ring recorded in stereo at Beyreuth in 1955 but never released till 2001. Testament has re-released it on CD and LP. I have the LP's and it brings me to tears since it's so beautifully executed and recorded.

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