Thread: ProLogicII vs multichannel for stereo SACD

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Post by modrum August 23, 2003 (1 of 11)
I've just jumped into the world of SACD and DVD-A with the purchase of 3 SACD's which I found out after I got home, are single layer stereo disks. The documentation for my player suggests that SACD's should be played through the "multichannel" outputs, but this only creates sound through the left/right channels, hence the name stereo. If I set my receiver on "surround" mode, the receiver plays using ProLogicII to create 5.1 sound. Should I still be able to hear the sound advantages of SACD this way or should I stay with the "stereo" mix? Since I don't have a CD and SACD copy of the same album, I'm not sure how to test this.

Post by zeus August 23, 2003 (2 of 11)
modrum said:

I've just jumped into the world of SACD and DVD-A with the purchase of 3 SACD's which I found out after I got home, are single layer stereo disks. The documentation for my player suggests that SACD's should be played through the "multichannel" outputs, but this only creates sound through the left/right channels, hence the name stereo.

Some SACDs have a multichannel signal, but (currently) just over half don't. Check your discs to see if they have a sticker on the front which says "Multichannel" or labelling on the back which says "Stereo/Multi-ch". (Also, if you do a search for the titles here it will say "Stereo" or "Stereo/Multichannel".) Secondly, you need to connect all six channels from your player to your receiver using the analogue outputs. There may be some setup options on your player and receiver as well.

Post by modrum August 23, 2003 (3 of 11)
zeus said:

Some SACDs have a multichannel signal, but (currently) just over half don't. Check your discs to see if they have a sticker on the front which says "Multichannel" or labelling on the back which says "Stereo/Multi-ch". (Also, if you do a search for the titles here it will say "Stereo" or "Stereo/Multichannel".) Secondly, you need to connect all six channels from your player to your receiver using the analogue outputs. There may be some setup options on your player and receiver as well.

I have all 6 channels connected and the output from the player into the receiver is in stereo. Would I limit any of the advantages of the SACD format if I set my receiver on ProLogicII surround mode instead of stereo mode?

Post by zeus August 23, 2003 (4 of 11)
modrum said:

I have all 6 channels connected and the output from the player into the receiver is in stereo. Would I limit any of the advantages of the SACD format if I set my receiver on ProLogicII surround mode instead of stereo mode?

I would think so as you're reprocessing the signal in the digital domain. But if you prefer the sound with PL-II, why not. I'd hunt down some multichannel SACDs, especially those recommended by others on this site in their reviews, and have a listen. Multichannel recordings, even remixes, have got to be better than what a chip in your receiver can do in re-creating the original venue acoustics.

Post by pann August 23, 2003 (5 of 11)
modrum said:

I have all 6 channels connected and the output from the player into the receiver is in stereo. Would I limit any of the advantages of the SACD format if I set my receiver on ProLogicII surround mode instead of stereo mode?

Yes, you lose ALL the advantages. Never, ever use any other mode. ALWAYS use the analog outputs. Happy listening.

Post by modrum August 23, 2003 (6 of 11)
pann said:

Yes, you lose ALL the advantages. Never, ever use any other mode. ALWAYS use the analog outputs. Happy listening.

With the analog outputs, the only sound is left and right channel, so I lose all of the bass from the subwoofer. Is there any way to improve the sound, other than buy higher end front speakers. I just purchased an Onkyo HT-S760 home theater system. The front channels are good, but the sound is very empty without the sub.

Post by zeus August 23, 2003 (7 of 11)
modrum said:

With the analog outputs, the only sound is left and right channel, so I lose all of the bass from the subwoofer. Is there any way to improve the sound, other than buy higher end front speakers. I just purchased an Onkyo HT-S760 home theater system. The front channels are good, but the sound is very empty without the sub.

You may be able to set a crossover frequency to redirect bass from the fronts to the sub. I'm not familiar with your system. I personally run from pre-out to an active sub for bass reinforcement. External crossovers are likely better. Whatever you do you'll get the best results if you can do this in the analogue domain. I'd check your manual first to see if there's not an option hidden somewhere.

Post by modrum August 23, 2003 (8 of 11)
zeus said:

You may be able to set a crossover frequency to redirect bass from the fronts to the sub. I'm not familiar with your system. I personally run from pre-out to an active sub for bass reinforcement. External crossovers are likely better. Whatever you do you'll get the best results if you can do this in the analogue domain. I'd check your manual first to see if there's not an option hidden somewhere.

This system also has a preout to an active sub. If the stereo SACD only sends out signal from the left and right output and excludes all other outputs including the analog signal to the sub that would be there with a multichannel SACD, is there any way to get a fuller sound since only the left and right channels have a signal to them? I guess my best solution is to only buy multichannel SACD's, but I have read a few reviews of some stereo SACD's and the reviewers loved them. Either I'm missing something or they just have a better audio setup than I can afford.

Post by zeus August 23, 2003 (9 of 11)
modrum said:

This system also has a preout to an active sub. If the stereo SACD only sends out signal from the left and right output and excludes all other outputs including the analog signal to the sub that would be there with a multichannel SACD, is there any way to get a fuller sound since only the left and right channels have a signal to them? I guess my best solution is to only buy multichannel SACD's, but I have read a few reviews of some stereo SACD's and the reviewers loved them. Either I'm missing something or they just have a better audio setup than I can afford.

I'm guessing here but I think your pre-out is normally intended for the .1 channel. What you need is some means to route the stereo signal to this pre-out as well. There may be an option on your receiver for this. I just use a stereo integrated (with a volume knob and not much else) and everything sounds great. You may want to consult the people who sold you the system to see what they suggest.

Post by pann August 24, 2003 (10 of 11)
modrum said:

This system also has a preout to an active sub. If the stereo SACD only sends out signal from the left and right output and excludes all other outputs including the analog signal to the sub that would be there with a multichannel SACD, is there any way to get a fuller sound since only the left and right channels have a signal to them? I guess my best solution is to only buy multichannel SACD's, but I have read a few reviews of some stereo SACD's and the reviewers loved them. Either I'm missing something or they just have a better audio setup than I can afford.

Have you done a setup with your player? If not, you MUST do setup (Configure) at the player level FIRST. This setup will manipulate the signal as you likr. Read the manual carefully, you’ll find a chapter dealing with this.

As you know the 6 analog outputs are LF, RF, LR, RR, CTR and SUB.

I don’t use center speaker, so during the setup, I chose “no” for CTR. The player will distribute the center channel info to the FL and FR. Therefore, I made no connections between my player and my preamp. You should make your choice for your center speaker too.
For the subwoofer, you may chose “yes”, and make connections between your player SUB’s analog output and your preamps sub input. The player will channel the low frequency thru the SUB path.

For my system, I did it another way; I choose “no” for SUB, but I choose my LF and RF speakers as Full Range at the player setup. the electronics in the player re-distributed the low frequency info , sending them thru the LF and RF analog outputs. Therefore, no SUB connections between my player and the preamp. Instead, I connected my subwoofer in parallel with my main front speakers with speaker cables.

Let me say it again, you must do a player setup first!

If you still don't know what I mean, please draw a sketch of your equipment and email me at pann100@yahoo.com, so that I may make some comments & email back to you.

Hope it helps.

Good luck and happy adventure.

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