Thread: "DSD 2 ch only" on AV receiver

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Post by Marpow April 27, 2015 (11 of 18)
Yoropiko1 said:

Agreed, the manual is very confusing, again I'm not aware of any receivers that can accept a DSD stream via HDMI being able to do so with 2 channel only, they either accept both 2 and 5 channel or neither ( ie PCM only ).

The manual confuses further by suggesting that Pure Mode will process incoming signals " as is " which does imply that this receiver would, upon receiving an incoming DSD signal via HDMI, convert it straight to analog with no PCM conversion prior to this. Maybe it does, although my guess is that is unlikely given the price point of this receiver and the likely 24bit/192Khz DAC built into it. I suspect this Pioneer, like so many Yamaha receivers will accept the DSD stream and even display the words " DSD " on the front panel, but will convert it to 24Bit/88.2Khz before again converting that signal to analog.

I completely agree.

This will be changing and will of course, be an extra/ more expensive version of whatever the brand is.

I currently have very good equipment with good readouts and if I run a DSD recording with DSD output, it will display as PCM, why, because it is outputting in PCM.

I will be adding a DSD converter next week and I will let you know if and how it changes the readouts on my receiver.
I actually am not sure if the new DSD machine that will be reading out at DSD, provided it is getting DSD will effect the A/V receiver. I am wondering if the A/V receiver at the time that it was built did not have a DSD readout if it will even be able to? Little tweaks that I will soon figure out.

Post by Kal Rubinson April 28, 2015 (12 of 18)
Marpow said:

I currently have very good equipment with good readouts and if I run a DSD recording with DSD output, it will display as PCM, why, because it is outputting in PCM.

I will be adding a DSD converter next week and I will let you know if and how it changes the readouts on my receiver.
I actually am not sure if the new DSD machine that will be reading out at DSD, provided it is getting DSD will effect the A/V receiver. I am wondering if the A/V receiver at the time that it was built did not have a DSD readout if it will even be able to? Little tweaks that I will soon figure out.

The insertion of a DSD DAC means that your AVR will be getting analog from it and, therefore, it has no way to know the source format. It should say analog as source.

It would be surprising if a device that has DSD decoding capabilities would lack the readout for it as that is a selling point. More likely, it is merely another example of the handshaking between AVR and player causing the player to automatically output PCM when it is informed that the AVR cannot accept DSD.

Post by valerio April 28, 2015 (13 of 18)
Thank you all.
This is the answer from Pioneer:
"If the display shows 'DSD' the signal can't be PCM. Furthermore VSX-324 doesn't have a display indication for DSD. Probably yours is a different model, which should justify the fact that the display shows DSD and sound comes from all the speakers when playing multichannel DSD."

I wrote again noting that my amplifier is VSX-324-K-P and is part of the HTP-072 package. I'm waiting for answer.

Post by Yoropiko1 April 29, 2015 (14 of 18)
valerio said:

Thank you all.
This is the answer from Pioneer:
"If the display shows 'DSD' the signal can't be PCM. Furthermore VSX-324 doesn't have a display indication for DSD. Probably yours is a different model, which should justify the fact that the display shows DSD and sound comes from all the speakers when playing multichannel DSD."

I wrote again noting that my amplifier is VSX-324-K-P and is part of the HTP-072 package. I'm waiting for answer.

I think Pioneer are confused by their own display, the display shows the incoming signal only, not what happens to it once it reaches the DSP/DAC internally ( which in the majority of cases is simply convert to PCM ).

Technically every receiver detects the incoming signal, otherwise how would the the HDMI Handshake to a non DSD capable receiver tell the source player to send PCM only?
You would still hear all of the 5 channels from a 5.0 DSD signal play through the speakers because the receiver simply converted said 5.0 DSD to 5.0 PCM then to 5.0 Analog.

Out of curiosity when you play a DSD source via HDMI is there a seperate DSD light or does the text display on the front of the receiver show the word DSD, ie when you play a DTS HD Master Audio Blu Ray your text display would have the words DTS HD Master ( or similar )?

Post by valerio April 30, 2015 (15 of 18)
Yoropiko1 said:

I think Pioneer are confused by their own display, the display shows the incoming signal only, not what happens to it once it reaches the DSP/DAC internally ( which in the majority of cases is simply convert to PCM ).

Technically every receiver detects the incoming signal, otherwise how would the the HDMI Handshake to a non DSD capable receiver tell the source player to send PCM only?
You would still hear all of the 5 channels from a 5.0 DSD signal play through the speakers because the receiver simply converted said 5.0 DSD to 5.0 PCM then to 5.0 Analog.

Out of curiosity when you play a DSD source via HDMI is there a seperate DSD light or does the text display on the front of the receiver show the word DSD, ie when you play a DTS HD Master Audio Blu Ray your text display would have the words DTS HD Master ( or similar )?

Unlike Dolby and DTS, there is no DSD light or icon. The word "DSD" appears as text on the display for a few seconds only when the signal is received, as happens with any other signal.

What happens to the 2ch and the multichannel DSD if I send it through the 2ch analog output?

Post by valerio April 30, 2015 (16 of 18)
I sincerely apologize with all of you. While I was trying other features of my equipment I noticed that the 5.0 SACD does NOT play in multichannel but only in stereo unless the receiver is in Dolby Pro Logic II mode. I was sure that when I first tried that SACD the receiver was in Pure Direct mode, but it seems that I was wrong. I'm new to all of this, I presume I still have a lot to learn!
So the question now is: apart from the DSD/PCM conversion mystery, what happens to the 5.0 signal in Pure Direct mode? Is it downmixed to stereo, or does the receiver reproduce only the L and R channels? The manual doesn't say.

Post by Yoropiko1 April 30, 2015 (17 of 18)
valerio said:

What happens to the 2ch and the multichannel DSD if I send it through the 2ch analog output?

I assume if you pop a SACD into your player and select 5.0 multichannel as the preferred listening option but the player itself is only connected to your receiver via left and right analog output you should only get the left and right channels of that 5.0 mix ( ie you will be missing the sound from the centre and surround channels). Ideally you should connect the 5.1 analog outputs of your source player to the 5.1 analog inputs on your receiver, however in your case that is not possible, the only way your receiver can accept 5.0 mix SACD is via HDMI.

If you intend to use the DAC inside the source player to convert the DSD stereo track then of course you can simply use the 2 channel analog output to send the signal to any of the stereo phono inputs on your receiver, the same way you would connect up a standard CD player. So its really a matter for yourself how you prefer to connect it up but if you prefer to listen to both 2 channel and 5 channel SACD then using HDMI is your only option.

Post by Yoropiko1 April 30, 2015 (18 of 18)
valerio said:

So the question now is: apart from the DSD/PCM conversion mystery, what happens to the 5.0 signal in Pure Direct mode? Is it downmixed to stereo, or does the receiver reproduce only the L and R channels? The manual doesn't say.

Selecting the " Pure direct " mode doesn't change either the 5.0 or 2.0 signal, both still remain 5.0 or 2.0 depending on which mix you selected at playback. Selecting this simply disengages all EQ/bass management settings, the signal remains as is from the source player. Pure Direct will also often switch other aspects of the receivers internal components off ( ie the display, video output, etc., which might cause electrical interference, and so thus have a negative effect on the sound quality ).

As to whether doing this makes any audible difference is purely subjective, try listening with and without Pure Direct and decide for yourself. Personally I always use Pure Direct modes but for some engaging EQ and Bass management could also be beneficial depending on the listening environment.

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