Thread: SACD and mp3 audio quality dichotomy?

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Post by Wilhelm—Xu Zhong-Rui October 30, 2013 (11 of 15)
The following might be of interest :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/9333797/How-music-finally-recovered-from-CDs.html


Yet, invoking the courtesy of Ken (and Matt), for sake of your easy quoting and further discussions (or future reference [should it disappear, say behind a paywall]) :
'How Music Finally Recovered From CDs'
Ken Ishiwata—a crucial figure in the development of compact discs—tells [The Telegraph's Consumer Technology Editor] Matt Warman the music industry sacrificed quality for cost but is now finally primed to recovery:
From vinyl to cassettes, through to CDs and now to iPods and MP3 players, music has never been more convenient. But does it sound better? In the view of one of hifi's most respected personalities: no. "Sound quality has gone down for the average user over the last ten to 15 years," says Ken Ishiwata.

A 30-year veteran of the hifi industry, Ishiwata was the godfather of the first CD players to offer sound close in quality to their analogue predecessors. A key audio engineer at Marantz, he worked at the firm before it was bought by Phillips to bring out the first CD players.

Only now, he says, is digital music turning the corner and beginning to sound as good as vinyl did. He says that at the beginning of each cycle of innovation, the audio industry has consistently sacrificed quality for convenience, and then left others to pick up the pieces.

"If you go back to the Sixties or Seventies, people just wanted the function—a refrigerator, a washing machine—now people want the lifestyle", he says. "So we had great analogue sound—but our industry needs something new every 15-20 years. Back then they had the cassettes, they were quite popular but they reached a peak so they had to come up with something new. Sony and Philips got together and came up with the CD in 1982—all new quality was possible, but we decided to come up with reasonable technology for the price. We designed the specifications so that it could be affordable for $100."

Only recently, says Ishiwata, have CDs really matched the quality of what they replaced. "Of course initially all audiophiles rejected CDs. British companies like Linn were laughing, saying 'We're never going to introduce the CD'."

The CDs began a process where music became, as Ishiwata puts it, "more and more part of people's lifestyle, and so we have to adapt to that."

Ishiwata is currently the "Master Tuner" for Marantz, who later this year [2012] will launch a £[699] iPod dock called the Consolette. It's the first I've heard that sounds like a real hifi system yet comes in a package just the size of a single speaker. "I think usually engineers do not understand music; but I'm coming from the music side and then I studied engineering," argues Japanese-born Ishiwata. "I try to see people's lifestyle and how they think and feel so I can manipulate sound."

The trouble with new music formats based on the digital MP3, however, is that initially the way to keep costs down was to compress the file size too much, says Ishiwata. That meant that although storage was expensive, more tracks could be fitted on to a single device.

"When the MP3 player first came the memory was so expensive, but now there's 32GB (and [from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2QPePifDQI interview] is increasing all the time) on your iPod. Today you don't need to compress. The majority of the download is still mp3 but actually your recording capacity is big enough to have non-compressed music. And so now a lot of people are using Apple Lossless and sound quality is beginning to improve again."

Ishiwata says movie soundtracks are increasingly provided in exquisite quality, and often uses American Beauty for his own audio demonstrations. Although music streaming services such as Spotify are not exactly studio quality, he says "They're not bad, and in five years time I think they’ll be a lot better."

It's Apple, however, that still dominates the MP3 market via the iPod and iTunes. "I'm not sure improving sound quality at this moment is a benefit for Apple," Ishiwata says. "Their product is not sold for the quality it's sold for the sexiness and the convenience. They are interested in audio but they are very business oriented. For them it is not the right time yet." Apple is, however, dipping its toe in the water: Mastered for iTunes brings audio files based on studio quality masters, and even former CD refuseniks Linn are now launching an ultra-high quality downloads service.

Nonetheless, for now, "most users are using highly compressed MP3s. It's unfortunately more convenient. But in the nature of people they always want something better. It always goes down, hits the bottom. But it's already coming back up." Marantz' Consolette, and host of new models from other manufacturers due in the autumn, will test that theory.

Post by Wilhelm—Xu Zhong-Rui August 4, 2014 (12 of 15)
An essentially lighter moment ; from dhinged to Dirac, their free "HD Player Lite is an easy-to-use music player based on advanced technology that genuinely improves the sound from Apple’s original iPhone and iPod Touch Earphones or EarPods."
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dirac-hd-player-lite/id551661761

And, yes, I think my Marantz Consolette has been a great audiophile-stereo solution to modern living—especially playing SA-CDs connected to its RCA inputs—for that price-point (unless you're not in America, or Europe, living in a costlier country like New Zealand...

Post by Euell Neverno August 4, 2014 (13 of 15)
Wilhelm—Xu Zhong-Rui said:

. . . (unless you're not in America, or Europe, living in a costlier country like New Zealand...

And, who wouldn't mind living in NZ? A truly beautiful country with people to match.

Post by Max74 August 5, 2014 (14 of 15)
On a somewhat related note, something from Quincy Jones (and a 22 minute short film):

http://www.vh1.com/music/tuner/2014-08-05/quincy-jones-the-distortion-of-sound-interview/

Post by Wilhelm—Xu Zhong-Rui August 17, 2014 (15 of 15)
Max74 said:

short film

Max74's link involved Andrew Scheps ; his, lengthy, "Talks at Google" http://youtube.com/watch?v=SXbH-yzGNfg 1h19m18s 'Lost in Translation: Audio Quality in Streaming Media' "provides an engaging, revelatory and humorous presentation of current audio format comparisons. The demonstration showcases the auditory differences of master recordings played back in different formats such as vinyl, CD, MP3, AAC and online streaming models."

I replayed it today (sometimes watching, sometimes just listening) in a dedicated mono speaker setup, optimised for voice (because they've edited out the music examples), similar to photo of /showthread/115665/115733#115733

Scheps' Google presentation is thought provoking, I recommend you listen or watch it and we discuss the various contentious aspects, including limitations—such as DSD developments since...


"Scheps http://www.uaudio.com/blog/artist-interview-andrew-scheps/ has engineered and mixed for some of the biggest acts in the business, including Adele, Metallica, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Linkin Park, Green Day and U2. He is a two-time GRAMMY® winner for his work on the Red Hot Chili Peppers' Stadium Arcadium and Adele's 21 albums and was named the 2012 International Engineer of the Year by the UK's Music Producers Guild."


And photo of /showthread/115065/115498#115498 shows my default stereo setup, due to...

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