Thread: Anybody here familiar with Christian Thieleman's Wiener Staatsoper Ring from 2011 ?

Posts: 10

Post by Chris July 9, 2013 (1 of 10)
Being a bit of Wagner Ring addict again,after Gergiev's wonderful Walküre on SACD,I just did an online search and found the above release from DGG. Rbcd only on 14 discs,but at least Siegfried and Götterdämmerung are also available as 24/96 masterfile downloads.
Has anyone here heard any of these performances live or on rbcd ?
DGG hails Thielemann as "THE Wagner conductor" of today and claim the performances at the Wiener Staatsoper in 2011 where a sensation.
Have I missed something important? Or is it just DGG hype?
Anyway for Wagner live,I am planning to hear some of Barenboim's live Proms Wagner Ring this July.
And I am waiting for Gergiev's next Mariinsky release Das Rheingold at the end of this summer.

Post by Iain July 9, 2013 (2 of 10)
I can't help with this specific issue, but I've seen him at the Philharmonie and thought his conducting superb. Here's a link that may be of some help and offer insight of Thielemann:
http://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/concerts#d:Christian%20Thielemann/k:Olivier%20Messiaen

Also, I believe Gergiev's "Das Rheingold" will be released in October, IIRC.


EDIT:
http://www.mariinskylabel.com/page/coming-up

" Coming Up

17 Jun 2013

Coming soon on the Mariinsky label is the highly anticipated second release in Valery Gergiev's Ring cycle: Das Rheingold. The album will be available to pre-order on the site from August, with official release September 2. With an international Wagnerian cast led by René Pape, Gergiev's 'absolute mastery of the orchestra' (Wagner News) is in evidence again "

Post by akiralx July 9, 2013 (3 of 10)
For the Ring on RBCD, note that the Bohm live Ring has been released in a new excellently remastered boxset very cheaply, the only snag being the reduction of CDs from 14 to 12 - which means Siegfried and Gotterdammerung run into each other on a CD.

Apparently the sound has been very much improved.

Post by Chris July 10, 2013 (4 of 10)
Iain said:

I can't help with this specific issue, but I've seen him at the Philharmonie and thought his conducting superb. Here's a link that may be of some help and offer insight of Thielemann:
http://www.digitalconcerthall.com/en/concerts#d:Christian%20Thielemann/k:Olivier%20Messiaen

Also, I believe Gergiev's "Das Rheingold" will be released in October, IIRC.

Thanks for your response and links Iain.
And nice to hear that you too seem to like Gergiev's Walküre.
But I am actually more specifically interested in Thielemann's status as a Wagner conductor, and this Ring cycle in particular.
But thanks anyway.
I am not unfamilair with him in other repertoire and I have also seen and heard his work live a couple of times.
The most impressive for me was a Schumann concert in New York years ago, when he was still reasonably new on the scene so to say.
Right now I have a DVD on loan from my library with Renée Fleming singing Strauss Lieder coupled with Strauss' Alpensymphonie and Thielemann conducting the Wiener Philharmoniker.
But although they play well for him,I am not so keen on his conducting technique.
My impression from this DVD and others is that he mainly stands there stick in hand and tries to convey his wishes via pleading looks and occasional wisps of the baton.
In that respect rather give me Carlos Kleiber or Karajan or Abbado or Iván Fischer or any other of the great conductors capable of actually conveying things with gestures and "Schlagtechnik"
With Thielemann I sometimes wonder why he even holds a baton in his hand ?
But then again it is the end results that really count, and the musicians are the ones actually performing and that's why I wanted to hear opinions on his Wiener Staatsoper Wagner Ring.
Ps Enjoy your Walküre Chris

Post by Chris July 10, 2013 (5 of 10)
akiralx said:

For the Ring on RBCD, note that the Bohm live Ring has been released in a new excellently remastered boxset very cheaply, the only snag being the reduction of CDs from 14 to 12 - which means Siegfried and Gotterdammerung run into each other on a CD.

Apparently the sound has been very much improved.

Thanks,
but I am not really interested in Wagner on rbcd.
Wagner´s "Klangzauber" really needs hi res reproduction to be enjoyed fully imho.And if I buy Thielemann's Ring it will be in its masterfile form not rbcd.
I know Böhm's Ring from the LP days but preferred both Karajan and Solti then.
What I am trying to find now are the best possible modern performances in the best possible sound and no rbcd will give me that,so rbcd is not an option. But who knows maybe Böhm's Wagner will be come available on SACD from Japan?
Meanwhile I still enjoy his classic Tristan und Isolde with the inimitable Birgit Nilsson as Isolde, from Bayreuth on LPs.
Ps To me good LPs are still far more hi res than any rbcd,by the way.

Post by volund July 10, 2013 (6 of 10)
akiralx said:

For the Ring on RBCD, note that the Bohm live Ring has been released in a new excellently remastered boxset very cheaply, the only snag being the reduction of CDs from 14 to 12 - which means Siegfried and Gotterdammerung run into each other on a CD.

Apparently the sound has been very much improved.

Akira, I'd like very much to believe that recent remastering of Boehm's Bayreuth Ring is an improvement over the previous RBCD issues, but the remastering has been done with Decca's AMSI (Ambient Surround Imaging). The few previous releases I've heard on Decca Eloquence (not to be confused with the very good Australian Eloquence label) that have been remastered with AMSI are very nearly unlistenable: Simultaneously harsh and diffuse, with exaggerated stereo separation, and increased distortion in heavily modulated passages. If you do happen to hear the new remastering for yourself, please report.

Post by Chris July 10, 2013 (7 of 10)
volund said:

Akira, I'd like very much to believe that recent remastering of Boehm's Bayreuth Ring is an improvement over the previous RBCD issues, but the remastering has been done with Decca's AMSI (Ambient Surround Imaging). The few previous releases I've heard on Decca Eloquence (not to be confused with the very good Australian Eloquence label) that have been remastered with AMSI are very nearly unlistenable: Simultaneously harsh and diffuse, with exaggerated stereo separation, and increased distortion in heavily modulated passages. If you do happen to hear the new remastering for yourself, please report.

I too heard some AMSI mastered Decca Eloquence re -releases long ago. As you say absolutely horrible. Nothing whatsoever to do with accurate and hi res sound imo.
Cheap tricks to fake ambience air and and acoustic information that went missing when good analogue originals where transferred to low res rbcd. Fake surround.
If that is what's been done to the quite good analogue masters they are imho to be avoided by anyone who relishes good and accurate SQ.

Post by volund April 1, 2014 (8 of 10)
Chris, I don't know if you are still interested in the new remastering of Karl Boehm's 1967 Bayreuth Ring from (German) Decca Eloquence, but having just heard Die Walkuere from that set, I am delighted to report that Akira is entirely correct. The remastering engineers have done their jobs magnificently well. What I heard is a huge improvement over the original CD issue, as well as the "Philips 50" 24/96 remastering. The sound of this new remastering is open and smooth, very much reminiscient of God's own analogue, and with a near-total lack of digital glare, even on the singers' voices. Yes, virtually no glare, even on Nilsson's laser beam of a voice! True, I've only auditioned Walkuere, but it seems a safe bet that the remaining three operas have been remastered to the same very high standards. Finally, if this much isn't already obvious from what I have just written, let me state it outright. There is not the slightest trace of the wretched distortion and abysmal muddiness that disfigures every other title I have heard from German Eloquence.

Post by Lunna April 2, 2014 (9 of 10)
Can you please provide a link to the new Boehm Ring?

Post by Lunna April 2, 2014 (10 of 10)
Found it...

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