Thread: Nielsen in New York

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Post by Fitzcaraldo215 May 27, 2012 (11 of 24)
Arnaldo said:

Union demands make Carnegie hall a prohibitively expensive recording location, even more so for an independent label such as Dacapo. A more reasonable option would be Alice Tully Hall just across the street, with very decent acoustics. But it all depends on who's minding the mikes and the mixing board for Dacapo. For instance, based on their past work, the guys from Soundmirror or Polyhymnia would very likely find a way around Avery Fisher Hall's sound-sucking walls. OTOH, you have the Classic Sound posse, which has consistently muddied the Mariinsky and made the Barbican even worse than it is.

Bravo! Excellent points. Yes, engineering can make a huge difference, but a good hall may be essential, too.

Post by nydo May 27, 2012 (12 of 24)
"Union demands make Carnegie hall a prohibitively expensive recording location"

I have my doubts about this statement. More on target would be the simple fact that the New York Philharmonic is the resident orchestra of Avery Fisher Hall, for better or worse, and currently they play only one to two concerts a year at Carnegie Hall, where they are a visiting orchestra like every other orchestra there. Also, Carnegie is not soundproofed to the sounds of the city outside; I have heard many, many sirens and other street noises while attending Carnegie Hall concerts. Is Alice Tully hall really a good venue for a large Symphony Orchestra to record in? I would guess that that might be a bit of a tight fit.

Post by seth May 27, 2012 (13 of 24)
Arnaldo said:

Union demands make Carnegie hall a prohibitively expensive recording location, even more so for an independent label such as Dacapo.

I challenge you to backup that claim -- it makes no sense.

The musicians' labor contract is with the New York Philharmonic -- Carnegie Hall is not involved. There's no practical reason why the musicians would want more money to recorded in different halls when their fee is based on hourly work time (maybe if the conditions at Carnegie Hall were so terrible, like no heating or something they'd want more money to record there). Lastly, orchestras like New York perform in many different venues throughout the year; management wants flexibility to record in all of these locations, and they do for various radio broadcasts.

Now Carnegie Hall may charge higher than normal fees for recordings made in the hall, but I doubt that. Radio and TV broadcasts are regularly made in the hall, and given the partnership Carnegie Hall has with WQXR and APM where in addition to concerts being broadcast they are also posted online at WQXR for several months, it would appear that Carnegie Hall wants recordings made in it -- it helps maintain their national profile.

So why the lack of recordings then? Three reasons:

1. Subway. The N/Q/R basically runs under the Carnegie Hall and microphones pickup the rumble of the trains. In the 1960s Columbia/CBS tried working with the MTA to coordinate windows when the trains were not near Carnegie Hall; it didn't work.

2. Ambient sounds from the City. The envelope that the main auditorium is in does not block out outside sounds. Sirens from nearby vehicles are clearly audible during performances and even car horns seep in.

3. Orchestras only perform a program once. Live concerts are typically the product of two to four nights of performances, especially for difficult pieces. So to make a live recording there, at minimum you'd have to record the rehearsals and possibly have to have the orchestra stay after the concert for a patch session -- both of which come at extra costs.

Ultimately, I suspect both orchestras and consumers would rather have a polished performance without the sounds of New York City in the background and the occasional rumble of the subway.

John Eliot Gardiner's label SDG is going to release one of his all-Beethoven concerts from last year which was recorded for WQXR (Symphonies Nos. 5 & 7). So if you want to hear a modern recording made in Carnegie Hall, that will be your opportunity. It will be interesting to see how they deal with all of the problems described above.

Post by seth May 27, 2012 (14 of 24)
nydo said:

Is Alice Tully hall really a good venue for a large Symphony Orchestra to record in? I would guess that that might be a bit of a tight fit.

If they were to make the recordings at ATH, that would mean the're doing it in a studio situation (as opposed to recording live); so they could remove the seats and have the orchestra seated in the center of the hall.

Post by seth May 27, 2012 (15 of 24)
Arnaldo said:

The demands in question are obviously from the Carnegie Hall workers' unions, not from outside musicians. Just ask anyone who has dealt with the absurd restrictions there - even worse than Lincoln Center. OTOH, I've been to concerts by the Julliard Orchestra at Alice Tully Hall, with no problems whatsoever in terms of fitting all the musicians on stage, plus the rather forgiving acoustics.

Again, provide some evidence to backup your claim.

Blame unions all you want, but the reason commercial recordings are not made at Carnegie Hall is obvious to anyone who has attended a concert there: it's not a sound proof environment. Why would you ever make a recording in a place when at any given moment a siren could could come blaring in?

Post by seth June 15, 2012 (16 of 24)
I was on the Avery Fisher Hall stage today -- not surprising, tons of microphones for the Nielson recording. At least the recording team has no delusions of what they're up against.

Post by John June 18, 2012 (17 of 24)
A decent set of Nielsen symphonies has been long overdue. I first read about DaCapo's intentions some months ago, and looked forward to these releases. Now that I know they will be recorded in DXD, not DSD, I'm not quite as keen.

Post by wilbur July 7, 2012 (18 of 24)
John said:

A decent set of Nielsen symphonies has been long overdue. I first read about DaCapo's intentions some months ago, and looked forward to these releases. Now that I know they will be recorded in DXD, not DSD, I'm not quite as keen.

You should be rejoicing instead, as the DXD recording will be undeniably better. See my review of the Kielland 2L disc.

Post by Beagle July 7, 2012 (19 of 24)
Windsurfer said:

Walk a little down the street and around the corner, you find Carnegie Hall.

So that's how you get to Carnegie Hall. I thought the only way was "Practice, practice, practice!"

;-)

Post by TxMark1962 July 9, 2012 (20 of 24)
This is great news, whether or not the works are recorded n DSD or DXD...I am just thrilled to be able to look forward to a hi rez set of these works as my favorite set with Blomstedt/SFSO are getting a little long in the tooth...

Cheers,

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