Thread: BIS thread

Posts: 4131
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Post by Fitzcaraldo215 March 14, 2011 (2071 of 4131)
bissie said:

This is the first I heard (sic!) of it.
Could you write a bit more specifically, exactly when you hear it, and I will definitely check it on Monday - I am building my new house, so my equipment is in mothbags. If you want to you can write to me personally.

Robert

Gee, I had no idea moths would attack audio equipment. I need to be more diligent about that.

Seriously, Robert, you do an outstanding job in your recordings, and we very much appreciate your ever so patient indulgence of us here in this forum.

As a sidelight, I do have electrostatic speakers, and they do kill the occasional moth, which is deposited on their surface. "Bug zappers" is what my ex-wife used to call my Martin Logans. I have to vacuum the speakers periodically to get rid of them.

Post by krisjan March 14, 2011 (2072 of 4131)
Polly Nomial said:

PPS: These postings presumably makes me a member of the BIS fan club...

PN - it is the BIS BRIGADE according to you know who. Don't forget about the secret meeting on Thursday...

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 March 14, 2011 (2073 of 4131)
Polly Nomial said:

Having not noticed any shortcomings previously, I was curious about your experience, so had a listen last night. The common demoninator to all these sections seems to be that they are bass-heavy (always one or more of: double-basses, bass drum, low timpani, tuba).

Might it be that your bass settings are too high and/or your (sub)woofer needs a little attention?

Absolutely correct. The bass or lack thereof in recordings such as BIS is attributed by certain writers to be the fault of the recording, when, in fact, it is much more likely to be the writer's own system and room. Having measured response in a number of rooms and corrected it with DSP EQ, I can tell you that the typical audiophile's room has very, very lumpy bass, a roller coaster character with peaks and nulls of possibly +/- 12 dB or even more. How they can carry on about BIS being wrong or Telarc being right without having measured and corrected their room is a travesty. That they do it with an absolutist, take no prisoners attitude is a monument to their own total lack of credibility or far worse.

FWIW, from experience in a number of treated and or EQ corrected rooms that were measurably flat to 20 Hz, the BIS sound is generally wonderfully realistic to me compared to my live concert experience, which is quite considerable. The Telarc sound is often, not always, seriously overblown on bass drum or organ, though usually fine in other ways.

Post by Polly Nomial March 14, 2011 (2074 of 4131)
Fitzcaraldo215 said:

FWIW, from experience in a number of treated and or EQ corrected rooms that were measurably flat to 20 Hz, the BIS sound is generally wonderfully realistic to me compared to my live concert experience, which is quite considerable. The Telarc sound is often, not always, seriously overblown on bass drum or organ, though usually fine in other ways.

That corresponds exactly to my experience too!

Post by Jakob March 14, 2011 (2075 of 4131)
Hello Robert, maybe you overlooked my last question... are there plans to record again with Fabio Biondi, maybe even on SACD? Thanx, Jakob

Post by bissie March 14, 2011 (2076 of 4131)
Jakob said:

Hello Robert, maybe you overlooked my last question... are there plans to record again with Fabio Biondi, maybe even on SACD? Thanx, Jakob

Yes, I did, and do apologize.
No, very unfortunately there are no such plans. The Jephta is, BTW, no BIS recording, but a tape that was offered us and, while we couldn't influence the recording, we thought it had such qualities that it deserved to be released, especially as it is a 2-for-1 CD of extreme duration.

Best - Robert

Post by Euell Neverno March 14, 2011 (2077 of 4131)
Polly Nomial said:

Having not noticed any shortcomings previously, I was curious about your experience, so had a listen last night. The common demoninator to all these sections seems to be that they are bass-heavy (always one or more of: double-basses, bass drum, low timpani, tuba).

Might it be that your bass settings are too high and/or your (sub)woofer needs a little attention?

Had you checked my profile, you would know that I have no subwoofer and I have no bass controls, as the preamp is made by Bryston. Also, I have not audited the surround channel, as my SACD player is an Arcam FMJ CD-37, which is stereo only. The distortion to which I have referred is garbled sound, not "heavy bass." One of the most severe examples is located in track 4 at 0:12-0:59. I did not find the bass to be exaggerated at all in the way we hear on many Telarc recordings, for example. Nor did I find the recording level to be unusually low, as you previously reported. Perhaps the difference between our perceptions is based upon your use of the surround channel, while I audited the stereo channels on both SACD and CD.

Post by Polly Nomial March 14, 2011 (2078 of 4131)
Fair enough - I should have checked, sorry! I'll listen again in stereo tonight.

In what way is it garbled? Any particular characteristic or instrument(s) affected?

Post by Euell Neverno March 14, 2011 (2079 of 4131)
Polly Nomial said:

Fair enough - I should have checked, sorry! I'll listen again in stereo tonight.

In what way is it garbled? Any particular characteristic or instrument(s) affected?

Garbled = substantial loss of clarity plus distortion, similar to what would be experienced through over-modulation of an analogue recording, as well as graininess.

Post by wehecht March 14, 2011 (2080 of 4131)
I've listened through the whole disc again, and the specifically identified sections thrice more (in stereo, though my normal listening is mc, and at normal, louder , and softer levels) and can't find anything that I'd identify as distortion. The closest I can come is that the cymbal sometimes sounds more fizz than shimmer. In fact I enjoyed my listening so much I'm hoping Robert will consider Maestro Flor and the MPO for a disc of the Dvorak concert overtures.

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