Thread: New Channel Classics Release Query

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Post by bmoura September 25, 2015 (21 of 28)
Iain said:

Indeed.

I would still like to have more > 64fs .dff/.dsf multi-channel titles on offer at Native DSD site, however.

This customer simply doesn't have more storage space available for physical audio media, any longer.

Can't argue there.

Saving space at home is a big plus with DSD Downloads. More Multichannel DSD is always welcome here!

Post by tailspn September 25, 2015 (22 of 28)
Iain said:

Indeed.

I would still like to have more > 64fs .dff/.dsf multi-channel titles on offer at Native DSD site, however.

This customer simply doesn't have more storage space available for physical audio media, any longer.

So would Jared. To that end we have all pressed the labels offered on nativedsd for more 256fs DSD content, from which the other bit rates can be converted. We've had success, but they're slow in coming, and almost universally small ensemble recordings. But there's more in the production pipeline.

Please remember almost no one records in 256fs DSD to release at that bit rate. The largest advantage of 256fs from a production perspective is the ability to mix/balance two generations without exceeding the noise envelope of 64fs DSD. That's how the majority of 256fs recordings are utilized and processed.

Jared has the largest opportunity with his Channel Classics orchestra relationships for using 256fs DSD as the recording modality for major projects. The options open to him, at the expense of more Merging hardware and software, are two:

1, Continue his long held and successful recording process of preforming an analog mix, then tracking that resulting stereo mix, along with all microphones for safety and the discrete remaining surround channels.

2, Use a Horus as a stage box, tracking all microphones at full level, and mixing and balancing later in post production.

Number one has the advantage of the much revered Channel Classics sound, largely produced by the pre A/D conversion analog mix and the Grimm AD1 converter. The disadvantage(?) is the Grimm A/D is capable of 64fs DSD exclusively.

Number two, the way virtually everyone else records regardless of the digital format, is 256fs is available for the initial session recording.

A hybrid of both these approaches is what we did with the Mendelssohn, record the analog mixer with both the Grimm and Horus in parallel. Does that yield a better sound quality recording? The raw Mendelssohn Scherzo test tracks we put on nativedsd did not produce a clear winner among those who reviewed both, and were before any post processing effects. A better test will be comparing the release version of the Mendelssohn against the Horus 256fs session take.

Meantime, those interested in this facet of the acoustical music recording biz need to support those labels and sites extending themselves, searching for even better techniques and processes for bringing music to us all.

Post by Joseph Ponessa September 25, 2015 (23 of 28)
Iain said:

This customer simply doesn't have more storage space available for physical audio media, any longer.

My shelf space too has been maxed out for a long time. I downsized the LP collection not quite to a vanishing point, and reduced the laserdiscs to forty-eight feet of shelf space. I still have twelve feet of shelf space for large boxed sets of CDs and eighty-four feet of shelf space for all other CD-sized media.

To continue collecting, I have been combining the CD-sized media into blu-ray boxes holding ten discs each. This vastly reduces the shelf space needed, or put another way lets me keep packing more onto the shelves. The eighty-four feet of shelf space probably hold five or six times that by now. Each box holds a year's worth of music and films. Here, for example, are the contents for the 1955 box:
1955-1-27 Midsummer Marriage by Tippett conducted by Davis (2 CDs)
1955-3-21 Livre d'orgue by Messiaen played by Rudolf Innig (SACD)
1955-4-16 Richard III directed by Olivier (BD)
1955-4-22 First half of the X Minus One radio series (DVD, audio only)
1955-7 Beethoven's Ninth conducted by Karajan in Vienna (Japanese SACD)
1955-8-11 Confidential Report directed by Orson Welles (DVD)
1955-10-10 Oklahoma! directed by Fred Zinnemann (DVD)
1955-12-11 The Prisoner directed by Peter Glenville (DVD)
1955-12-22 Lola Montes directed by Max Ophuls (BD)

Those are my favorite releases from 1955, which was kind of a dry year in film and music. TV was sapping the life out of movie theaters and opera houses worldwide, and widescreen film had only just been introduced in some theaters to draw back movie-goers. (Richard III was televised in a cropped form at the same time as the New York widescreen film release, and thus was seen by more people than any other Shakespeare performance before that time.)

The really creative years like 1914, 1939, and so forth have been challenging. Sometimes I have to review fifteen or twenty discs in order to settle on the top ten for a given year. For 1913 I listened to over sixty recordings of Rite of Spring, and, surprisingly, there was a clear favorite--Svetlanov in 1966 (CD). New releases keep the collection in a state of creative flux, and so I am still happily collecting physical media, and will keep doing so as long as possible. I always perk up when Channel Classics announce a new title, because I know the sound will be awesome. Keep up the good work!

Post by samayoeruorandajin September 25, 2015 (24 of 28)
Laserdiscs? Time to get rid of those.

Post by Joseph Ponessa September 25, 2015 (25 of 28)
samayoeruorandajin said:

Laserdiscs? Time to get rid of those.

I threw out the letterboxed movies because they were unwatchable on modern TVs. TV series and classical music still work for me on laser. Laserdisc audio is nearly always better than Dolby 2.0 on DVD. Occasionally an old laserdisc turns out to have come from a better master than the newest Blu-ray, or to have more features. (Magnificent Ambersons, where are you these days?) But the collection as a whole grows more and more obsolete by the year.

Post by bmoura September 25, 2015 (26 of 28)
tailspn said:

So would Jared. To that end we have all pressed the labels offered on nativedsd for more 256fs DSD content, from which the other bit rates can be converted. We've had success, but they're slow in coming, and almost universally small ensemble recordings. But there's more in the production pipeline.

Hopefully that trend will continue.

I've heard that sales of the DSD 256 capable Horus and HAPI converters from Merging Technologies remain strong. So the number of DSD 256 converters and the people who own them continues to grow. A good sign.

Post by audioholik September 30, 2015 (27 of 28)
Iain said:

Thanks for the clarification.

Any chance the Mendelssohn will be available in at least 128fs?

Grimm AD1 unfortunately hasn't been updated to support this rate yet...

We discussed the topic of sweet spot DSD 128x sampling rate many times before with RWetmore and others so I won't belabor the point here, and will simply point those interested to a new article by Andreas Koch:

http://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/raising-the-sample-rate-of-dsd-is-there-a-sweet-spot/

Post by bmoura September 30, 2015 (28 of 28)
audioholik said:

Grimm AD1 unfortunately hasn't been updated to support this rate yet...

We discussed the topic of sweet spot DSD 128x sampling rate many times before with RWetmore and others so I won't belabor the point here, and will simply point those interested to a new article by Andreas Koch:

http://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/raising-the-sample-rate-of-dsd-is-there-a-sweet-spot/

Published as Andreas is field testing a DSD 256 ROM upgrade for his Playback Designs DACs.... :)

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