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Discussion: Ravel: Daphnis et Chloé (complete ballet), Pavane - Nézet-Séguin

Posts: 29
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Post by bissie April 9, 2015 (11 of 29)
current93 said:

Dear Mr. von Bahr,
Sorry for making you angry because of my statement concerning low level recording. I only wish to get safe recommendation from SACD.net member of new Ravel disc sound quality before I order it.

I listen in stereo and I'm OK with majority of BIS discs I own. My comments were on that particular Strauss Ein Heldenleben SACD. You wouldn't deny that it has narrower than usual soundstage.

IMHO BIS purist policy on 0 dB recording is subjective and I respect it. As frequent classical concert goer what I actually hear that composer wrote and musicians play depends on my listening position in the hall. Same story with recordings. For me, BIS discs don't look like premium places in concert hall.
I wish BIS would be the same purist label in other issues such as DSD or DXD resolution and minimum mics.

Best regards, Alexander

Dear Alexander,

I did say that I am not getting into the discussion of mic placement etc in this connection. This is not an objective thing that can be measured. We do it as best we can, as I am sure that everyone else does.

My irritation was at this eternal refrain: BIS records are recorded at a lower level than most others. They aren't. We don't. Now this is provable with numbers and charts and is NOT subjective. Our peaks are as loud as the recording system allows. What we don't do - but seemingly everyone else does - is tampering with the levels, once set. Only that way can we be true to the musicians and the music. Amen.

Robert

Post by Jonty April 9, 2015 (12 of 29)
I note this disc gets 5 stars for both performance and recording in the May issue of BBC Music magazine.

Post by steviev April 9, 2015 (13 of 29)
AmonRa said:

That is why preamplifiers (now also some digital players) have a so called "volume control". Use that. If the amps and speakers can not take the peaks, your system is not good enough.

No way. It would be very simple for BIS and other labels that don't use dynamic compression to include an ultra-compressed 128kbps "lawnmower mix" mp3 on each disc so that we can enjoy music while mowing the lawn, weed whacking, leaf-blowing, whatever.

Post by bissie April 10, 2015 (14 of 29)
steviev said:

No way. It would be very simple for BIS and other labels that don't use dynamic compression to include an ultra-compressed 128kbps "lawnmower mix" mp3 on each disc so that we can enjoy music while mowing the lawn, weed whacking, leaf-blowing, whatever.

Indeed it would be, and this topic has been discussed back and forth both internally and externally at BIS.
The upshot is that we haven't taken the plunge as yet. Most artists we have spoken to abhor the thought that we would thusly compromise what they have intended and done and I, personally, do agree with that. When you start tampering, where does it end?
It is also quite easy for a customer who feels inclined, to do it him/herself, so we let them do just that, if absolutely necessary.

Robert

Post by Johannes April 10, 2015 (15 of 29)
Bissie, I read Stevie's comment as being very 'tongue in cheek'. I suspect he agrees with you 100% as probably the vast majority (myself included) do.

Post by Iain April 10, 2015 (16 of 29)
bissie said:

Indeed it would be, and this topic has been discussed back and forth both internally and externally at BIS.
The upshot is that we haven't taken the plunge as yet. Most artists we have spoken to abhor the thought that we would thusly compromise what they have intended and done and I, personally, do agree with that. When you start tampering, where does it end?
It is also quite easy for a customer who feels inclined, to do it him/herself, so we let them do just that, if absolutely necessary.

Robert

Indeed!

FWIW, I listen to either MP3 or FLAC files on my laptop to become familiar with new works I've never heard before. When I'm ready to do so, those FLAC files get loaded on my system, so I can finally hear what I've been missing, so far.

For me, that musical intimacy works quite well. "Audiophiles" may scoff at that approach, but that's their problem.

Post by bissie April 11, 2015 (17 of 29)
Johannes said:

Bissie, I read Stevie's comment as being very 'tongue in cheek'. I suspect he agrees with you 100% as probably the vast majority (myself included) do.

That is the way I took it, too (I am not totally without humour), but it is true - we have had that discussion, once quite seriously - so I thought better to give a real answer to what I perceived was a clever joke.

But you're wrong when it comes to the perception that we are recording at a lower level - even to the point of shoot-outs with professional reviewers - when rather than recording at a lower level we actually record with a higher fidelity than - seemingly - our brethren (otherwise their products would be similar and the criticism wouldn't be uttered in the first place).

Robert

Post by Johannes April 11, 2015 (18 of 29)
bissie said:

But you're wrong when it comes to the perception that we are recording at a lower level - even to the point of shoot-outs with professional reviewers - when rather than recording at a lower level we actually record with a higher fidelity than - seemingly - our brethren (otherwise their products would be similar and the criticism wouldn't be uttered in the first place).

Robert

My apologies Robert but I have never mentioned anything about any perception that you are recording at a lower level. In fact, quite the opposite. I stated that I believed most people agree with you, myself included. Please, please read things carefully before jumping to conclusions!

Post by bissie April 12, 2015 (19 of 29)
Johannes said:

My apologies Robert but I have never mentioned anything about any perception that you are recording at a lower level. In fact, quite the opposite. I stated that I believed most people agree with you, myself included. Please, please read things carefully before jumping to conclusions!

You are absolutely right. I made a thought jump and went back to the original theme, forgetting that I was answering your post.

I do apologize - it wasn't at all directed towards you, but to the general public with that perception.

Sorry - Robert

Post by Vaan April 17, 2015 (20 of 29)

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